In addition to the great job wishes to everyone, I want to share with you something that I found on CF Watertown's website. It was written by Lisbeth in reference to DT. Here is part of what she had to say...
"But who would I be if I quit? Who would I be if I just sat down and watched the others march deeper into the fight, the pain, the struggle — and I left them? How would I feel when they emerged on the other side — tired, but happy, and triumphant?
I would be a lesser person. And I can’t have that.
If I give up here, I’ll give up in other parts of life. If I fail to do my best here, I will fail when other people need my best.
CrossFit is like life: Either you’re someone who sees things through to the end, no matter how difficult or painful or hard — or you’re a quitter. Or a cheater. Or a liar. CrossFit can show your true colors in 15 mins with a barbell and a stopwatch.
The Japanese have an old belief that you have to see someone drunk to witness their true colors, but I think we have something better. Watch someone CrossFit: It’s the ultimate truth serum.
Decide who you want to be in life and show that person to us on the gym floor. It really is that simple. Don’t just tell us the truth. Show us. CrossFit."
Ummm totally don't agree with that. Crossfit is not my life, if I choose not to complete a wod its my business. You don't know what people have going on outside of this box. Also there are plenty of d-bags that crossfit and fight until the end and guess what??? They are still dbags! I mean honestly I am not going to judge someone on how they crossfit??? Sounds a little dumb to me. I make my decision on how you treat me and others not by your workout. LOL
Only yesterday, you said that you were sick of the people that you think cheat in the gym. Does that effect how you feel about them outside of the box? Do you not think that if they cheat in the box, they are more inclined to cheat outside of it? That is how I interpret this article.
Also, I will play devil's advocate with you and ask you if you feel better having finished a WOD more so than you would have if you quit. Based on a post you made the other day thanking Aimee and I for pushing you to the end, I would tend to think that you loved the fact that you pushed through and finished even though you really did not want to. I personally think that says TONS about your character. You wanted to quit and you didn't and I would guess you felt better when it was over for not doing so.
It is always easier to quit, but you did not. The article is not saying CF needs to be your life, it is saying that your tendencies in the box may often translate to your tendencies outside of the box.
Yes its annoying when people cheat in the box. Does it effect how I feel about them outside of the box...nope! I would still hangout with them. If they want to cheat there way through a wod then so be it, I am not going to judge their entire life on a wod that they cheated on.
Also I didn't finish the wod on Saturday and I'm actually pretty happy that I didn't. I was sore from 1 round, now if I would have done all 3 rounds then I wouldn't be able to walk or sit. THEN I wouldn't have been able to workout yesterday because I would still be sore from the ridiculous amounts of lunges. I don't mind quitting a wod, if I don't feel like doing it then I don't feel like doing it. Its really that easy and hey guess what its my money that I am wasting. I dare someone to judge my life outside of the box because of that. Your head will be ripped off!!
First so my head is not ripped off, I am not judging you. That being said, I love our discussions so I will continue.
I may be a minority and even if I am not, I am sure no one else will jump into our conversation but I am a member of the school, "once a cheater, always a cheater". I believe that the willingness to cheat is something that someone either has or does not have. If I knew someone cheated during a workout, it would not surprise me one bit if they cheated at work or in any other aspect of their life. Would this make me stop hanging out with them, no...it would not, I agree with you in that aspect. However, I would be lying to you if I said I would hesitate to trust them with certain things.
I am a believer that the way we carry ourselves in life is visible in many of our activities that we perform. Granted, there are exceptions to every rule but for the most part, I feel pretty comfortable in saying that.
Also, please do not get me wrong. Just yesterday I mentioned that I quit Fran because I did not get a PR. I also think that I would have felt better if I had pushed through and finished. Does this mean that I am a quitter in life? I do not believe so. Does this mean at times I get so absorbed in something that I want to beat and if I do not, I tend to get frustrated and in this particular instance, quit. Absolutely. I am a very competitive person that hates to lose and coming to terms with the fact that I will most of the time was something very hard for me to deal with and I would be lying if I said that CF was not one of the things that helped me see that fault in myself. Just my .02.
Let me start by saying that nobody else has the balls to say anything. They can email me and say they agree with me when we have these nice little discussions but nobody comes out and says it like ME!! :)
Now, I don't believe in once a cheater always a cheater. I don't believe someone that cheats on a wod will cheat on their wives or husbands or cheat at work. I really don't believe that at all!
Yes you are correct in saying that the way we carry ourselves is visible through activites performed. With that said crossfit is a small part of my life. My family, my husband and my job outweigh crossfit any day. To me its a workout. To others its more than that.
Also, I wouldn't beat yourself up for not finishing Fran. Maybe I am wrong in saying that but we all have bad days. Pick your head up, let it go and kick Fran's ass next time. I wouldn't go as far in saying that Jason is a quitter and sucks at life. Lets be real, you had a bad day a shitty workout. Great, suck it up buttercup and move on! :)
I like the fact that you disagree with me and are not afraid to tell me. One of my goals is to stimulate interesting discussions and challenge what people think and how they feel. If others disagree or agree please step in. Nicole and I won't mind. So, lets get back to our talk.
I believe that there are different levels of cheating. Someone that cheats on a wod may not necessarily cheat on their spouse but they may take other shortcuts in life that effect someone else. I think the bigger issue is an inherent ability to ignore the rules for personal gain. Even if they would not cheat elsewhere, it says that there is something not clicking that lets them think it is permissable. In my opinion, it shows a personality flaw if done on a consistent basis. To me it shows a lack of self esteem. Again, just my opinion. So, no matter where you cheat, it says something about you. Cheat on a wod it says something, break the rules there, it says something, be disrespectful of someone, it says something.
I do not disagree that CF is lower on the priority level than other aspects of my life, especially my wife and family. That would be insane. However, it is a pretty big part of my life since it is my wifes career. That being said, I have a respect for it that others may not have and I also have a deep respect for the change it has made in my life. To me, it is a workout, but it is also something that can dramatically effect my quality of life so I try to take it as seriously as I can. There are days that I do not have it but I still want to do what I can and give it my all.
Again, I am agreeing with you in that I do not think that I suck at life because I quit Fran. However, in quitting Fran, I do believe that I learned something about myself that I can try to work on so it does not happen again. That was the last workout that I quit because I said to myself if I am going to meet my goals, I need to give 100% all the time and not get mad. Quitting Fran was a great thing for me because it made me realize that I want to give 100% and it also made me realize that I can have fun in the gym without setting a PR.
I don't think we disagreee as much as you think we do. lol.
Interesting stuff guys. I do think there are some grey areas to address, two come to mind:
1. on high rep/round wods, someone may lose count unintentionally for themselves. It would be unfortunate for them to be labeled as a cheater by a 3rd party because of this. I would put money on the fact that I didn't do exactly 100 situps for the Wolverine each round. If I lost count I tried to compensate and do more, but chances are that I wasn't exact.
2. Quitting a wod can happen for many reasons. Tonight Jeff stopped doing deadlifts after 4 rounds because his back was feeling it. I look MORE highly on the fact that he can assess his situation and decide it was safer for him in the long run to stop after 4. It takes a lot of restraint to do that, or stay at a lower weight to work on form (Lisa/Sam with C&Js)
I bet you agree with these points, but I just thought they had to be articulated so people didn't come to the gym paranoid that they'd be called out on missing a pullup or for stopping for their own reasons. Because at the end of the day, we know our own bodies the best, not someone else.
I can also say that personally, I don't think I'm as competitive as others may be. I like the group atmosphere and the fact that we push each other, but I'm realistic with the weights I can lift and the reps I can do. I'll never out-deadlift Joe and I'll never be as flexible as everyone else (except Sam.) But I guess that's the point, right? Do what works for you. If you're someone who is competitive ..::cough, Jason::.. and needs to not let another person ..::cough, me::.. beat you on a strength day, then that works. If you show up to get a good sweat and show off the fact that you can touch your elbow to the ground on stretches, that's cool too.
Hey folks, for those looking to eat Paleo on the cheap, this came from www.paleonu.com and is quoted in its entirety.
--beginning of entry
Unfortunately, the cheapest and easiest food to get is mostly sugar and processed grains. Were that not the case, there would be no need for this website.
Here are some tips for PaNu on the cheap:
1) Never eat anything that comes in a box (pasta, cereal, crackers...) Stick to the peripheral aisles at the grocery store.
2) Drink only whole milk, water or iced tea - you will get good nutrition from the milk, and water and homemade iced tea are dirt cheap or free. People spend a fortune on liquid food that is just High Fructose Corn Syrup and water. I drink only water at restaurants - I spend my money on the food instead.
3) Eat salads and veggies that you like.
4) Eggs are the perfect food and cheap protein- they contain amino acids in the exact ratio as found in your body (of course they do, they are meant to grow a bird fetus from scratch!) I eat 4-6 eggs a day at a cost of no more than a dollar a day.
4) If you can't afford high quality grass-fed beef or bison, buy shoulder cuts and pork butts and smoke them or slow cook them. Take some fish oil to balance the high Omega 6's with Omega 3's.
5) Buy whole chickens and grill them - be sure to eat the skin, that's the best part. Or go to Sam's club for the 3 lb already roasted chicken - feeds a family of four for $5.
6) Drink half and half or whole cream for breakfast or add it to your coffee. Cheap, healthy (low insulin response) and fills you up.
You could easily get all the protein you need just from eggs and whole chickens and afford that on a minimum wage salary.
Go to "get started" and study carefully what not to eat.
--end of entry
I am still toying around with the idea of doing a blog or wiki for nutrition and recipes. Evan, I'll be emailing you shortly about this.
Ok ok, I'm gonna throw my 2 cents it. I've got the cojones to say something, so I'm gonna go ahead and dive head first into these shark infested waters and give you one Marine's perspective.
The Marine Corps kicks officers out for cheating in anything. You get in trouble for cheating on a PFT (physical fitness test), an academic test, Land Navigation (there were a handful of officers kicked out for a Land Navigation cheating scandal, and others kicked out for just being "suspected" of cheating-we take this stuff seriously), and we also kick people out for cheating on their wives/husbands. Now, these men and women are required to lead Marines in combat and through the toughest of situations. If you cannot be trusted with the simplest of things, like passing Land Nav on your own, how can we trust you with leading and developing Marines throughout their careers.
Now with regards to a CF workout, that may be a little different. That may be more of a discipline problem. When you cheat on the movements, like dont do full ROM on wall ball, or count the shots that dont go above the line- but they were close!- then you're really just cheating yourself. In my profession, if i do that, I'm cheating the Marines who are learning to obey my orders without hesitation. In the box, if you're cheating on form when something wouldnt/shouldnt count then your really just cheating yourself-that is, of course, only if you can actually get that full ROM to begin with. If going to parallel on your air squat is the best you can do, then do that, but that is your personal standard until you can go lower. When you cheat on counting to get a better score, then you personal integrity can be questioned. Really? Cheating to get a better score at an affiliate box...no one really cares. Why would it matter that much to you? Do the work, or get in better shape (which would mean doing the work) so you can get the better score on your own.
Quitting on the other hand, thats a whole 'nother ball game. People can quit workouts for various reasons...they're hurt, they get hurt, they aren't feeling it and have done as much as their body can handle for that day (motivation problem-Ray would agree), or they're going for a PR -like Jason- and they miss it. The goal was not obtained, so they stopped. The goal for 99% of the WODs are to get in better shape, but as it sounds in Jason's case, he was going for one thing- a PR.
Around here, there's really a no excuses attitude about any of our physical events unless you get injured. And even during an injury, unless its serious, you tend to suck up the pain and play it off until you can get behind some closed doors. Just today, I was halfway through my Endurance Course and both my calves cramped hard, and continued to cramp. I had two options, quit-that thought went through my head but was quickly squashed by the Marine inside my dome, or to continue to push and mitigate pain as necessary. I did cramp 5-6 more times where i had to stop and stretch it out before i could continue negotiating the obstacle I was on- cramping 10 feet above ground = not cool, but i finished, with a pretty good time too. Not a PR, but I still only missed maxing the course (60 min is max) by only 1 min and 47 seconds. My previous time had been 59:17.
Now the last part, which we haven't touched yet, is intensity. Something that I learned at my L1 Cert was that intensity is all relative to the person. It is the reason why we scale. Its the reason why my dad gets the same out of doing FGB as I do. People get in better shape because of intensity. You get in better shape and prevent injuries (becoming more athletic essentially) when you introduce technique (continuously improving) and increasing range of motion. Now are you cheating or quitting on yourself if you don't go as hard as you can? Depends-do you know that you're slacking but you're not doing anything about it? Or is this all you got in the tank today? Only you will really know that answer, others can only make assumptions based on perception.
Today, intensity for me was definitely much higher than it was the last time I ran the Endurance Course. My calves cramped, my quads hurt from doing pistols during Mary and Annie on Sunday, my upper body hurt from doing full ROM HSPU's for all my rounds of Mary for the first time and the pullups that are in that workout. I felt physically ill for many hours after that run. I'm sure many of you can attest to that after a good workout at the box.
These are solely my opinions and thoughts, not those of the Marine Corps.
Here sharky sharky sharky
*In case you were wondering, the Endurance Course (aka E-Course) starts with one lap on the Obstacle Course followed by a 5 mile run, first 3 miles just trail running, then the last 2 miles have 10 obstacles which you must navigate to include 4 and 6 foot walls, windows you jump through, a 10 foot rope net, and 3- 30ft ascents up and 3- 30ft descents down cliff faces and while holding on to a rope as thick as our ropes at the box. The entire course is done with a 25# pack on, a load bearing vest carrying 6 M16 rifle magazines and 2 canteens, as well as your protective kevlar helmet and your issued M16 A4 service rifle.
Hey Chris P were you shooting me some mad props for my forearm to the ground flexibility....I'll take all I can get my man.
I don't notice cheating too much since I spend a lot of time in DL...its a great place. As the year winds down I need to focus more on pushing through and fighting the urge to stop. Its been tough. I generally do pretty well in sports and games that I play but often stay in the bottome third or fifth at the end of wod's. Not where I am looking to be long term.
Jim, You were the only one to RX that nasty KB version of the Filthy Fifty....i still shudder at the thought of that one. I think I saw your elbow touch the ground during the deep lunges in the warm up that day too...
i love discussion, lets keep it going. obviously, you know your body better than anyone else and you should most definitely stop if you feel injury coming on. in fact, i admire people that are willing to stop for that reason. too many times i see people willing to sacrifice injury for 10 pounds on a lift. it is important for people to realize that there comes a time where you are just not strong enough to support good form...you should have stopped before this time. you should only increase in weight if you know your back is not rounding, you are not pulling your arms etc. the main thing that coach glasman stressed this weekend was not telling people good job when indeed it is not. i am making a promise to tell you exactly how your form is going forward. if i say it is not good, it is not because i do not like you, it is because i am concerned for your help. please try not to focus on the number.
where was i?
oh yeah...it is not the fact that when doing 100, you accidently do 99. i am talking about needing to do 21 reps and doing 15, and then doing 15 again when when you need to do 21. i know of one person that i counted for doing angie when i was just bumming around for the next class that did less than 60 reps of each and when asked at the end said they did 100. that is the kind of cheating that i am talking about.
in terms of quitting. when you feel your health is in danger, i fully support it. that is really not quitting...it is being smart. quitting is getting mad that you are not performing as well as you would like to and saying f it, i dont care....i am done.
getting sleepy. hope to have 26 comments when i awake.
as a newcomer, it's interesting to read all these perspectives, and also a little bit intimidating.
i'm as competitive as the next person, which is one reason i really like CF. we push each other to try new things, to work harder, to excel. that's the single biggest difference to me between the globo gyms and CF. i can say with pretty high certainty that no one in a globo gym has ever noticed whether i hit full ROM, and whether i did 8 reps or 10.
i can count pretty well when it's the only thing i'm doing, but honestly, in the middle of a tough WOD, i can't count for shit sometimes, especially if it's more than single digits and even then, it's dodgy.
and my ROM is pathetic on half these WODs too. i'm trying to learn how to kip, so when we do pull ups i'm not coming anywhere close to clearing the bar with my head. am i cheating? should i not count those? do people think i'd cheat on my taxes because i'm counting these as reps?
donkey donkey donkey (in shrek voice). cheating is being able to do something and taking the easy way out. as you can see in my example, telling me that you did 100 reps when i counted less than 60... that is cheating. when we are working on rom, we are not cheating. in our box, we are trying to improve our fitness and we ALL do that...each and every one of us. i will be the first to admit that when we do HSPU and ring dips, my head may not touch the ground every time and my biceps may not touch the rings every time but I go as far as I can while maintaining the high intensity. that is the key to know whether or not you should be scaling. you need to keep intensity high. so, if you are practicing kips and your chin is not above the bar every time i would be counting your reps unless you wanted to try out for regionals in which case, i would not. as a coach, we need to learn the personal goals of each person. there are certain people in the gym that want to held to those standards and those that do not. that is why we stress when you have counters to let your counter know how strict you would like them to be.
in comment to counting. i agree that many people get confused when counting, especially when something like karen rolls around. i have also noticed, however, that people tend to do more reps if they are in question just to make sure.
yeah, our posts crossed each other. i get that you see a distinction between 60 and 100. i certainly do.
i was just taken aback by the notion that someone would watch my ROM on any given day and make a judgment about me as a human being on the basis of how i counted my reps.
i'm glad you clarified, because for a minute there, it almost seemed like there was the notion that it's better to stay in the comfort zone and do perfect reps than to push outside and fail, which seemed antithetical to the whole crossfit concept.
just wanted to make sure i understand what is really being espoused before i drink any more koolaid.
I come here for the Spartan work ethic, and I try to hold myself accountable for meeting the standard even if it needs to be a scaled standard. I expect each of you to hold me accountable as well. If my form sucks, then I expect to be corrected for my own damn good. On occasion, I have had counters give me the wink and a nod on a missed rep. NO FRIGGIN WAY! What am I, a charity case? It either meets the mark or it does not. If it takes another 10 seconds or another minute to get that last rep, then so be it.
Quit? Nope. If I come through the door, then this shit is getting done if it is within my physical capability to do so. The mental decision was made when I came in. Just to be clear, there is a difference between quitting and making a wise decision to terminate a WOD so that you can come back to fight another day. Pressing to the point of injury is will power run amok. We all know the difference, and we all get to live with our choices.
In the end, I judge me and only me. I'm just glad to be around you folks.
good post ray. in the end, i think some of my thoughts are being misconstrued so i will summarize.
1) nicole is awesome and i love how she fights back. keep it up...it makes for good conversation and it gets people thinking.
2) to me, your actions in the gym say things about you outside the gym but this must be clarified. if you finish your wod and after recovery, go and cheer on someone else, it says something about you. if you finish your wod and recover and go stand in the corner it says something about you. if you finish your wod and go work on some exercise, it says something about you. everything we do at all times says something about our personality. broad strokes here. this is where the conversation started. it has since diverted to different subject including quitting and cheating so i will address those now...
3) Quitting. I like what Ray said. You are the best person to judge how you are feeling. Finishing just to finish may not be possible at the risk of injury. I would never ask someone to finish after the hurt themselves or thought they were close. That is just dumb. Safety should always come first. That being said, I personally would not quit for another reason. I did in the past and when I look back on it, I think it was childish. I feel that even when you do not have your best day, you should keep on fighting and if you do, I also think that says something about your personality
4) Cheating. This seems to be a hot topic of late and I really never meant it to be. First off, as I mentioned before, if you cheat in a wod, I am not going to automatically assume that you would cheat on your wife or anything. I may, however, think that you are insecure and are trying to impress others or yourself through falsifying data. I may also think that since you see it fit to cut corners in the box, you may feel at liberty to cut corners elsewhere. That being said, we have to define cheating. First off and most importantly, it has to be conscious. If you know with certainty that you need 21 and you know that you do 15, that is cheating. Cheating is not losing count, cheating is not messing up because we are all going to do it at some point in time. Just the other day, I forgot to do HSPU in 2 rounds of Nate but when I remembered that, I made them up. In the heat of battle, you are going to forget things sometimes...it is okay but you should make them up if you remember. Also, as I have said, I have noticed that if we don't remember if we are at 60 or 70, we typically go back to 60 just to make sure. I know many many people in the gym that have done this in the past.
ROM gets a little tougher. I will start with if you are trying your best, you are not cheating. However, if you are not trying your best and are sacrificing ROM just to get a better score, you would be cheating. For example if we are doing Angie and I do not get over the bar even though I can and my chest never once touches the deck and then I do crunchies and then I do not go to full depth on my squat despite being able to, I have cheated. However, if I am doing my best and my chin is not quite over and my squat is not quite deep enough yet but I am going as low as I can and working on my ROM, you are definitely not cheating.
So, I think that clarifies everything. If you have specific questions, please ask.
Agreed on the ROM piece. As Donkey states, it is always good to push the envelope as long as we do not sacrifice form. As long as you know are not getting full range, and there is a reason for it, then that is fair game especially for someone just starting out at this. 100% effort and intensity is the goal, and we each know when we are doing that or when we leave it on the table.
All I was trying to say was that I would never pass judgement or assume things about people based on their wod. It stills sounds ridiculous to me. If you cheat or quit, its truly up to you. I don't need your reasons why you did the above things and I certainly don't think its right to assume that you are a cheater or a quitter outside of the box.
Great job Sam, Todd, and Kerry!!!
ReplyDeleteIn addition to the great job wishes to everyone, I want to share with you something that I found on CF Watertown's website. It was written by Lisbeth in reference to DT. Here is part of what she had to say...
ReplyDelete"But who would I be if I quit? Who would I be if I just sat down and watched the others march deeper into the fight, the pain, the struggle — and I left them? How would I feel when they emerged on the other side — tired, but happy, and triumphant?
I would be a lesser person. And I can’t have that.
If I give up here, I’ll give up in other parts of life. If I fail to do my best here, I will fail when other people need my best.
CrossFit is like life: Either you’re someone who sees things through to the end, no matter how difficult or painful or hard — or you’re a quitter. Or a cheater. Or a liar. CrossFit can show your true colors in 15 mins with a barbell and a stopwatch.
The Japanese have an old belief that you have to see someone drunk to witness their true colors, but I think we have something better. Watch someone CrossFit: It’s the ultimate truth serum.
Decide who you want to be in life and show that person to us on the gym floor. It really is that simple. Don’t just tell us the truth. Show us. CrossFit."
I love it!
Ummm totally don't agree with that. Crossfit is not my life, if I choose not to complete a wod its my business. You don't know what people have going on outside of this box. Also there are plenty of d-bags that crossfit and fight until the end and guess what??? They are still dbags! I mean honestly I am not going to judge someone on how they crossfit??? Sounds a little dumb to me. I make my decision on how you treat me and others not by your workout. LOL
ReplyDeleteNicole:
ReplyDeleteOnly yesterday, you said that you were sick of the people that you think cheat in the gym. Does that effect how you feel about them outside of the box? Do you not think that if they cheat in the box, they are more inclined to cheat outside of it? That is how I interpret this article.
Also, I will play devil's advocate with you and ask you if you feel better having finished a WOD more so than you would have if you quit. Based on a post you made the other day thanking Aimee and I for pushing you to the end, I would tend to think that you loved the fact that you pushed through and finished even though you really did not want to. I personally think that says TONS about your character. You wanted to quit and you didn't and I would guess you felt better when it was over for not doing so.
It is always easier to quit, but you did not. The article is not saying CF needs to be your life, it is saying that your tendencies in the box may often translate to your tendencies outside of the box.
Thoughts?
Yes its annoying when people cheat in the box. Does it effect how I feel about them outside of the box...nope! I would still hangout with them. If they want to cheat there way through a wod then so be it, I am not going to judge their entire life on a wod that they cheated on.
ReplyDeleteAlso I didn't finish the wod on Saturday and I'm actually pretty happy that I didn't. I was sore from 1 round, now if I would have done all 3 rounds then I wouldn't be able to walk or sit. THEN I wouldn't have been able to workout yesterday because I would still be sore from the ridiculous amounts of lunges. I don't mind quitting a wod, if I don't feel like doing it then I don't feel like doing it. Its really that easy and hey guess what its my money that I am wasting. I dare someone to judge my life outside of the box because of that. Your head will be ripped off!!
First so my head is not ripped off, I am not judging you. That being said, I love our discussions so I will continue.
ReplyDeleteI may be a minority and even if I am not, I am sure no one else will jump into our conversation but I am a member of the school, "once a cheater, always a cheater". I believe that the willingness to cheat is something that someone either has or does not have. If I knew someone cheated during a workout, it would not surprise me one bit if they cheated at work or in any other aspect of their life. Would this make me stop hanging out with them, no...it would not, I agree with you in that aspect. However, I would be lying to you if I said I would hesitate to trust them with certain things.
I am a believer that the way we carry ourselves in life is visible in many of our activities that we perform. Granted, there are exceptions to every rule but for the most part, I feel pretty comfortable in saying that.
Also, please do not get me wrong. Just yesterday I mentioned that I quit Fran because I did not get a PR. I also think that I would have felt better if I had pushed through and finished. Does this mean that I am a quitter in life? I do not believe so. Does this mean at times I get so absorbed in something that I want to beat and if I do not, I tend to get frustrated and in this particular instance, quit. Absolutely. I am a very competitive person that hates to lose and coming to terms with the fact that I will most of the time was something very hard for me to deal with and I would be lying if I said that CF was not one of the things that helped me see that fault in myself. Just my .02.
Let me start by saying that nobody else has the balls to say anything. They can email me and say they agree with me when we have these nice little discussions but nobody comes out and says it like ME!! :)
ReplyDeleteNow, I don't believe in once a cheater always a cheater. I don't believe someone that cheats on a wod will cheat on their wives or husbands or cheat at work. I really don't believe that at all!
Yes you are correct in saying that the way we carry ourselves is visible through activites performed. With that said crossfit is a small part of my life. My family, my husband and my job outweigh crossfit any day. To me its a workout. To others its more than that.
Also, I wouldn't beat yourself up for not finishing Fran. Maybe I am wrong in saying that but we all have bad days. Pick your head up, let it go and kick Fran's ass next time. I wouldn't go as far in saying that Jason is a quitter and sucks at life. Lets be real, you had a bad day a shitty workout. Great, suck it up buttercup and move on! :)
I like the fact that you disagree with me and are not afraid to tell me. One of my goals is to stimulate interesting discussions and challenge what people think and how they feel. If others disagree or agree please step in. Nicole and I won't mind. So, lets get back to our talk.
ReplyDeleteI believe that there are different levels of cheating. Someone that cheats on a wod may not necessarily cheat on their spouse but they may take other shortcuts in life that effect someone else. I think the bigger issue is an inherent ability to ignore the rules for personal gain. Even if they would not cheat elsewhere, it says that there is something not clicking that lets them think it is permissable. In my opinion, it shows a personality flaw if done on a consistent basis. To me it shows a lack of self esteem. Again, just my opinion. So, no matter where you cheat, it says something about you. Cheat on a wod it says something, break the rules there, it says something, be disrespectful of someone, it says something.
I do not disagree that CF is lower on the priority level than other aspects of my life, especially my wife and family. That would be insane. However, it is a pretty big part of my life since it is my wifes career. That being said, I have a respect for it that others may not have and I also have a deep respect for the change it has made in my life. To me, it is a workout, but it is also something that can dramatically effect my quality of life so I try to take it as seriously as I can. There are days that I do not have it but I still want to do what I can and give it my all.
Again, I am agreeing with you in that I do not think that I suck at life because I quit Fran. However, in quitting Fran, I do believe that I learned something about myself that I can try to work on so it does not happen again. That was the last workout that I quit because I said to myself if I am going to meet my goals, I need to give 100% all the time and not get mad. Quitting Fran was a great thing for me because it made me realize that I want to give 100% and it also made me realize that I can have fun in the gym without setting a PR.
I don't think we disagreee as much as you think we do. lol.
Interesting stuff guys. I do think there are some grey areas to address, two come to mind:
ReplyDelete1. on high rep/round wods, someone may lose count unintentionally for themselves. It would be unfortunate for them to be labeled as a cheater by a 3rd party because of this. I would put money on the fact that I didn't do exactly 100 situps for the Wolverine each round. If I lost count I tried to compensate and do more, but chances are that I wasn't exact.
2. Quitting a wod can happen for many reasons. Tonight Jeff stopped doing deadlifts after 4 rounds because his back was feeling it. I look MORE highly on the fact that he can assess his situation and decide it was safer for him in the long run to stop after 4. It takes a lot of restraint to do that, or stay at a lower weight to work on form (Lisa/Sam with C&Js)
I bet you agree with these points, but I just thought they had to be articulated so people didn't come to the gym paranoid that they'd be called out on missing a pullup or for stopping for their own reasons. Because at the end of the day, we know our own bodies the best, not someone else.
I can also say that personally, I don't think I'm as competitive as others may be. I like the group atmosphere and the fact that we push each other, but I'm realistic with the weights I can lift and the reps I can do. I'll never out-deadlift Joe and I'll never be as flexible as everyone else (except Sam.) But I guess that's the point, right? Do what works for you. If you're someone who is competitive ..::cough, Jason::.. and needs to not let another person ..::cough, me::.. beat you on a strength day, then that works. If you show up to get a good sweat and show off the fact that you can touch your elbow to the ground on stretches, that's cool too.
Hey folks, for those looking to eat Paleo on the cheap, this came from www.paleonu.com and is quoted in its entirety.
ReplyDelete--beginning of entry
Unfortunately, the cheapest and easiest food to get is mostly sugar and processed grains. Were that not the case, there would be no need for this website.
Here are some tips for PaNu on the cheap:
1) Never eat anything that comes in a box (pasta, cereal, crackers...) Stick to the peripheral aisles at the grocery store.
2) Drink only whole milk, water or iced tea - you will get good nutrition from the milk, and water and homemade iced tea are dirt cheap or free. People spend a fortune on liquid food that is just High Fructose Corn Syrup and water. I drink only water at restaurants - I spend my money on the food instead.
3) Eat salads and veggies that you like.
4) Eggs are the perfect food and cheap protein- they contain amino acids in the exact ratio as found in your body (of course they do, they are meant to grow a bird fetus from scratch!) I eat 4-6 eggs a day at a cost of no more than a dollar a day.
4) If you can't afford high quality grass-fed beef or bison, buy shoulder cuts and pork butts and smoke them or slow cook them. Take some fish oil to balance the high Omega 6's with Omega 3's.
5) Buy whole chickens and grill them - be sure to eat the skin, that's the best part. Or go to Sam's club for the 3 lb already roasted chicken - feeds a family of four for $5.
6) Drink half and half or whole cream for breakfast or add it to your coffee. Cheap, healthy (low insulin response) and fills you up.
You could easily get all the protein you need just from eggs and whole chickens and afford that on a minimum wage salary.
Go to "get started" and study carefully what not to eat.
--end of entry
I am still toying around with the idea of doing a blog or wiki for nutrition and recipes. Evan, I'll be emailing you shortly about this.
Ok ok, I'm gonna throw my 2 cents it. I've got the cojones to say something, so I'm gonna go ahead and dive head first into these shark infested waters and give you one Marine's perspective.
ReplyDeleteThe Marine Corps kicks officers out for cheating in anything. You get in trouble for cheating on a PFT (physical fitness test), an academic test, Land Navigation (there were a handful of officers kicked out for a Land Navigation cheating scandal, and others kicked out for just being "suspected" of cheating-we take this stuff seriously), and we also kick people out for cheating on their wives/husbands. Now, these men and women are required to lead Marines in combat and through the toughest of situations. If you cannot be trusted with the simplest of things, like passing Land Nav on your own, how can we trust you with leading and developing Marines throughout their careers.
Now with regards to a CF workout, that may be a little different. That may be more of a discipline problem. When you cheat on the movements, like dont do full ROM on wall ball, or count the shots that dont go above the line- but they were close!- then you're really just cheating yourself. In my profession, if i do that, I'm cheating the Marines who are learning to obey my orders without hesitation. In the box, if you're cheating on form when something wouldnt/shouldnt count then your really just cheating yourself-that is, of course, only if you can actually get that full ROM to begin with. If going to parallel on your air squat is the best you can do, then do that, but that is your personal standard until you can go lower. When you cheat on counting to get a better score, then you personal integrity can be questioned. Really? Cheating to get a better score at an affiliate box...no one really cares. Why would it matter that much to you? Do the work, or get in better shape (which would mean doing the work) so you can get the better score on your own.
Quitting on the other hand, thats a whole 'nother ball game. People can quit workouts for various reasons...they're hurt, they get hurt, they aren't feeling it and have done as much as their body can handle for that day (motivation problem-Ray would agree), or they're going for a PR -like Jason- and they miss it. The goal was not obtained, so they stopped. The goal for 99% of the WODs are to get in better shape, but as it sounds in Jason's case, he was going for one thing- a PR.
Around here, there's really a no excuses attitude about any of our physical events unless you get injured. And even during an injury, unless its serious, you tend to suck up the pain and play it off until you can get behind some closed doors. Just today, I was halfway through my Endurance Course and both my calves cramped hard, and continued to cramp. I had two options, quit-that thought went through my head but was quickly squashed by the Marine inside my dome, or to continue to push and mitigate pain as necessary. I did cramp 5-6 more times where i had to stop and stretch it out before i could continue negotiating the obstacle I was on- cramping 10 feet above ground = not cool, but i finished, with a pretty good time too. Not a PR, but I still only missed maxing the course (60 min is max) by only 1 min and 47 seconds. My previous time had been 59:17.
Now the last part, which we haven't touched yet, is intensity. Something that I learned at my L1 Cert was that intensity is all relative to the person. It is the reason why we scale. Its the reason why my dad gets the same out of doing FGB as I do. People get in better shape because of intensity. You get in better shape and prevent injuries (becoming more athletic essentially) when you introduce technique (continuously improving) and increasing range of motion. Now are you cheating or quitting on yourself if you don't go as hard as you can? Depends-do you know that you're slacking but you're not doing anything about it? Or is this all you got in the tank today? Only you will really know that answer, others can only make assumptions based on perception.
To be continued...
Today, intensity for me was definitely much higher than it was the last time I ran the Endurance Course. My calves cramped, my quads hurt from doing pistols during Mary and Annie on Sunday, my upper body hurt from doing full ROM HSPU's for all my rounds of Mary for the first time and the pullups that are in that workout. I felt physically ill for many hours after that run. I'm sure many of you can attest to that after a good workout at the box.
ReplyDeleteThese are solely my opinions and thoughts, not those of the Marine Corps.
Here sharky sharky sharky
*In case you were wondering, the Endurance Course (aka E-Course) starts with one lap on the Obstacle Course followed by a 5 mile run, first 3 miles just trail running, then the last 2 miles have 10 obstacles which you must navigate to include 4 and 6 foot walls, windows you jump through, a 10 foot rope net, and 3- 30ft ascents up and 3- 30ft descents down cliff faces and while holding on to a rope as thick as our ropes at the box. The entire course is done with a 25# pack on, a load bearing vest carrying 6 M16 rifle magazines and 2 canteens, as well as your protective kevlar helmet and your issued M16 A4 service rifle.
Hey Chris P were you shooting me some mad props for my forearm to the ground flexibility....I'll take all I can get my man.
ReplyDeleteI don't notice cheating too much since I spend a lot of time in DL...its a great place. As the year winds down I need to focus more on pushing through and fighting the urge to stop. Its been tough. I generally do pretty well in sports and games that I play but often stay in the bottome third or fifth at the end of wod's. Not where I am looking to be long term.
the vast majority of my post was written before jason's last comment and before chris P stepped in.
ReplyDeleteI did have a high school baseball coach once say to my team, 'If you aint cheating, you aint trying." Its everywhere, unfortunately.
To me, integrity in life is what matters.
Ok, I'm off my soap box. The blood is in the water. The sharks can smell it.
Jim, You were the only one to RX that nasty KB version of the Filthy Fifty....i still shudder at the thought of that one. I think I saw your elbow touch the ground during the deep lunges in the warm up that day too...
ReplyDeletei love discussion, lets keep it going. obviously, you know your body better than anyone else and you should most definitely stop if you feel injury coming on. in fact, i admire people that are willing to stop for that reason. too many times i see people willing to sacrifice injury for 10 pounds on a lift. it is important for people to realize that there comes a time where you are just not strong enough to support good form...you should have stopped before this time. you should only increase in weight if you know your back is not rounding, you are not pulling your arms etc. the main thing that coach glasman stressed this weekend was not telling people good job when indeed it is not. i am making a promise to tell you exactly how your form is going forward. if i say it is not good, it is not because i do not like you, it is because i am concerned for your help. please try not to focus on the number.
ReplyDeletewhere was i?
oh yeah...it is not the fact that when doing 100, you accidently do 99. i am talking about needing to do 21 reps and doing 15, and then doing 15 again when when you need to do 21. i know of one person that i counted for doing angie when i was just bumming around for the next class that did less than 60 reps of each and when asked at the end said they did 100. that is the kind of cheating that i am talking about.
in terms of quitting. when you feel your health is in danger, i fully support it. that is really not quitting...it is being smart. quitting is getting mad that you are not performing as well as you would like to and saying f it, i dont care....i am done.
getting sleepy. hope to have 26 comments when i awake.
that last post was me, i was logged in as aim to update the blog. my bad.
ReplyDeleteJim, I def. give you props for that, plus your 365#x5 deads today.
ReplyDeleteI'll give you your 8.5% commission tomorrow.
Speaking of math problems, here's a link to interview questions that Google asks to prospective employees: http://tiny.cc/I1tvA
as a newcomer, it's interesting to read all these perspectives, and also a little bit intimidating.
ReplyDeletei'm as competitive as the next person, which is one reason i really like CF. we push each other to try new things, to work harder, to excel. that's the single biggest difference to me between the globo gyms and CF. i can say with pretty high certainty that no one in a globo gym has ever noticed whether i hit full ROM, and whether i did 8 reps or 10.
i can count pretty well when it's the only thing i'm doing, but honestly, in the middle of a tough WOD, i can't count for shit sometimes, especially if it's more than single digits and even then, it's dodgy.
and my ROM is pathetic on half these WODs too. i'm trying to learn how to kip, so when we do pull ups i'm not coming anywhere close to clearing the bar with my head. am i cheating? should i not count those? do people think i'd cheat on my taxes because i'm counting these as reps?
eek.
donkey donkey donkey (in shrek voice). cheating is being able to do something and taking the easy way out. as you can see in my example, telling me that you did 100 reps when i counted less than 60... that is cheating. when we are working on rom, we are not cheating. in our box, we are trying to improve our fitness and we ALL do that...each and every one of us. i will be the first to admit that when we do HSPU and ring dips, my head may not touch the ground every time and my biceps may not touch the rings every time but I go as far as I can while maintaining the high intensity. that is the key to know whether or not you should be scaling. you need to keep intensity high. so, if you are practicing kips and your chin is not above the bar every time i would be counting your reps unless you wanted to try out for regionals in which case, i would not. as a coach, we need to learn the personal goals of each person. there are certain people in the gym that want to held to those standards and those that do not. that is why we stress when you have counters to let your counter know how strict you would like them to be.
ReplyDeletein comment to counting. i agree that many people get confused when counting, especially when something like karen rolls around. i have also noticed, however, that people tend to do more reps if they are in question just to make sure.
yeah, our posts crossed each other. i get that you see a distinction between 60 and 100. i certainly do.
ReplyDeletei was just taken aback by the notion that someone would watch my ROM on any given day and make a judgment about me as a human being on the basis of how i counted my reps.
i'm glad you clarified, because for a minute there, it almost seemed like there was the notion that it's better to stay in the comfort zone and do perfect reps than to push outside and fail, which seemed antithetical to the whole crossfit concept.
just wanted to make sure i understand what is really being espoused before i drink any more koolaid.
I come here for the Spartan work ethic, and I try to hold myself accountable for meeting the standard even if it needs to be a scaled standard. I expect each of you to hold me accountable as well. If my form sucks, then I expect to be corrected for my own damn good. On occasion, I have had counters give me the wink and a nod on a missed rep. NO FRIGGIN WAY! What am I, a charity case? It either meets the mark or it does not. If it takes another 10 seconds or another minute to get that last rep, then so be it.
ReplyDeleteQuit? Nope. If I come through the door, then this shit is getting done if it is within my physical capability to do so. The mental decision was made when I came in. Just to be clear, there is a difference between quitting and making a wise decision to terminate a WOD so that you can come back to fight another day. Pressing to the point of injury is will power run amok. We all know the difference, and we all get to live with our choices.
In the end, I judge me and only me. I'm just glad to be around you folks.
good post ray. in the end, i think some of my thoughts are being misconstrued so i will summarize.
ReplyDelete1) nicole is awesome and i love how she fights back. keep it up...it makes for good conversation and it gets people thinking.
2) to me, your actions in the gym say things about you outside the gym but this must be clarified. if you finish your wod and after recovery, go and cheer on someone else, it says something about you. if you finish your wod and recover and go stand in the corner it says something about you. if you finish your wod and go work on some exercise, it says something about you. everything we do at all times says something about our personality. broad strokes here. this is where the conversation started. it has since diverted to different subject including quitting and cheating so i will address those now...
3) Quitting. I like what Ray said. You are the best person to judge how you are feeling. Finishing just to finish may not be possible at the risk of injury. I would never ask someone to finish after the hurt themselves or thought they were close. That is just dumb. Safety should always come first. That being said, I personally would not quit for another reason. I did in the past and when I look back on it, I think it was childish. I feel that even when you do not have your best day, you should keep on fighting and if you do, I also think that says something about your personality
4) Cheating. This seems to be a hot topic of late and I really never meant it to be. First off, as I mentioned before, if you cheat in a wod, I am not going to automatically assume that you would cheat on your wife or anything. I may, however, think that you are insecure and are trying to impress others or yourself through falsifying data. I may also think that since you see it fit to cut corners in the box, you may feel at liberty to cut corners elsewhere. That being said, we have to define cheating. First off and most importantly, it has to be conscious. If you know with certainty that you need 21 and you know that you do 15, that is cheating. Cheating is not losing count, cheating is not messing up because we are all going to do it at some point in time. Just the other day, I forgot to do HSPU in 2 rounds of Nate but when I remembered that, I made them up. In the heat of battle, you are going to forget things sometimes...it is okay but you should make them up if you remember. Also, as I have said, I have noticed that if we don't remember if we are at 60 or 70, we typically go back to 60 just to make sure. I know many many people in the gym that have done this in the past.
ROM gets a little tougher. I will start with if you are trying your best, you are not cheating. However, if you are not trying your best and are sacrificing ROM just to get a better score, you would be cheating. For example if we are doing Angie and I do not get over the bar even though I can and my chest never once touches the deck and then I do crunchies and then I do not go to full depth on my squat despite being able to, I have cheated. However, if I am doing my best and my chin is not quite over and my squat is not quite deep enough yet but I am going as low as I can and working on my ROM, you are definitely not cheating.
So, I think that clarifies everything. If you have specific questions, please ask.
Agreed on the ROM piece. As Donkey states, it is always good to push the envelope as long as we do not sacrifice form. As long as you know are not getting full range, and there is a reason for it, then that is fair game especially for someone just starting out at this. 100% effort and intensity is the goal, and we each know when we are doing that or when we leave it on the table.
ReplyDeleteAll I was trying to say was that I would never pass judgement or assume things about people based on their wod. It stills sounds ridiculous to me. If you cheat or quit, its truly up to you. I don't need your reasons why you did the above things and I certainly don't think its right to assume that you are a cheater or a quitter outside of the box.
ReplyDelete